The genesis of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'
As Yogi Berra would say, it's deja vu all over again. Watching the unfolding debate over Gen. Peter Pace's comments on gays in the military, I started thinking of how President Bill Clinton was first pressured to formulate the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy - a policy Hillary Clinton has now said should be repealed. (While campaigning in Iowa on Jan. 27.)
The issue had been simmering throughout the first Clinton campaign, but it came to a head on Nov. 11, 1992 -- Veterans' Day. I was on duty in Little Rock. Clinton had just been elected and was formulating his cabinet, but he was still governor of Arkansas. In the hopes of asking the president-elect about his campaign commitment to gays in the military, I went over to the State House to watch him salute the armed forces.
On the rope line that day, I asked: "How are you going to handle the opposition of the military to your position on gays and lesbians in the military?"
Clinton didn't hesitate.
"If people who have served our country with distinction, many of them with battlefield ribbons and who have never had any kind of question about their conduct, can be booted out of the military, that is the issue, and I think there are ways that we can deal with this that will increase the comfort level of a lot of the military folks here."
Except it proved a lot harder than he'd thought to "increase the comfort level" of Colin Powell, the popular chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the rest of the Joint Chiefs. Or satisfy another leader with important ties to the military, Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Sam Nunn, D-Ga.
For a new president who had been elected despite a huge controversy over his draft status and opposition to the Vietnam War, this was a lose-lose proposition. Why would he want to take on the military establishment as one of his first acts after taking office? Nine days after after being sworn in, Clinton announced he was postponing a decision on the issue. Months later, Powell helped him come up with a compromise - "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." But the military remained resentful toward the commander-in-chief. And on the other side of the debate, he lost the support of lifelong friends from the gay activist community like David Mixner.
Few in the White House at the time thought it would be more than a short-term solution to a deeper societal problem. Fifteen years later, it is still official policy - and just as controversial.
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I've never been in the military but have lots of gay friends who have been. Tim from Boston is right. Combat troops are and should be "raw, insensitive, and "[full of testosterone]". They should be risk-takers, committed to duty and sacrifice, patriotic and maybe even a little reckless. None of those personality traits, however, has anything to do with sexual orientation. Not all gay men are cowardly sissies and not all lesbians are flaky man-haters.
Mike J. Baltimore MD (Sent Mar 15, 2007 3:13:13 PM)
I don't understand why it's such an issue in the first place. If being gay or lesbian is such an issue because of possible conduct, maybe we should take women out of the military also? Whatever may or may not happen between two adults, it's no ones business as long as they know how to aim and shoot.
Nigel, Salt Lake City, UT (Sent Mar 15, 2007 11:09:56 AM)
Are you kidding me! Gays and lesbians don't need separata facilities! Men and woman DO sleep in the tents and post guard together in real combat situations. Its not like every gay man and woman are attracted to their coworkers!! This country is so ignorant sometimes - as a lesbian in the ARMY - I just wish people would realize that it shouldn't be an issue at all.
(Sent Mar 15, 2007 11:01:12 AM)
its rather simple! and the research has been done, for the known amount of homosexual men that want to be in the military...it is not financially reasonable to create seperate facilities for them i.e. showers, rooms/sleeping quarters....and how ever you want to gripe about it, it is a uncomfortable sexual situation....so till the gays can prove that enough will train and fight for this country an already low funded military aren't going to invest in the infastructure for you....point blank and simple! unless men and woman straight or gay all decide to sleep in the same tent and shower in the same stalls.
(Sent Mar 15, 2007 7:27:28 AM)
I am just looked at a poll about this question that out of 50,000 reponses 71% said the general should not apoligise for his own personnel beliefs about this issue I also agree with the the general on my moral upbringing, but I spent 20 years in the military and we had many homosexuals in the military at that time also, I accepted them without reservation, but that didnt mean I had to foresake my own values.
Yankee Zephyr Olympia WA. (Sent Mar 15, 2007 12:09:49 AM)
General Pace is entitled to his opinion; however, when he broadcasts his opinion while in uniform, he is politicising his job. He should be ashamed of himself. By saying what he did, he is demeaning many fine soldiers who report to him, directly or indirectly. General Pace, respect the men and women who are out there dying for Emperor Bush. It does not matter what their sexual orientation is, their blood is the same color as yours.
Barbara, TN (Sent Mar 14, 2007 8:30:17 PM)
I agree with Laura from San Diego. General Pace has a nasty war to have to prosecute while trying to save as many lives as possible on BOTH SIDES, and especially among all the Iraqi civilians. It's obvious that he cares about keeping ALL of his troops - both gay and straight - as safe and cared for as is within his power. Let's get off his case and jump all over the politicians who have the power to make the laws which decide the military's functions. General Pace, despite his personal opinions, and despite the correctness or not of his opinions, is following the rule of the law as it is given. DADT is a POLITICIAN'S law; the POLITICIANS, who represent us common-folk, have the power to change those laws according to the desires of their constituents who make them known. The fight over DADT belongs with the legislators, not the military personnel.
Jake, Portland, Oregon (Sent Mar 14, 2007 6:46:34 PM)
I think people are forgetting why the Don't Ask, Don't Tell rule exists. It is not because homosexuality is immoral and "sinners" should not be able to serve in the military. It is because of the effect that a few openly gay men can have on the camaraderie of a unit, especially a combat arms type unit. I'm in the Army myself, and I always tell people that the atmosphere is a lot like a football locker room. It is raw, it is insensitive, it is drenched with testosterone. It has to be. The primary job of these men is to take blood. What happens when a gay man walks into that? Or a woman? Yeah, I'll go there. The special treatment that women are given in the military in order to be politically correct is a source of frustration among more capable male soldiers every single day.
Are we losing potentially good soldiers because of this issue? I'm sure we are. But again, as long as they aren't open about it I'm happy to have them. As soon as everybody knows, the whole atmosphere changes.
I still want someone to answer the question posed by a previous contributor... "Should women be forced to shower, dress, and bunk in the same quarters as men? Would they not have a right to be sexually uncomfortable? Would this discomfort not be reasonable? Now can you understand how most guys in the military feel?"
Tim, Boston, MA (Sent Mar 14, 2007 6:45:05 PM)
Barry Goldwater said it best when he said " I don't care if they are gay or not as long as they can shoot straight"
Mike Salt Lake City Utah (Sent Mar 14, 2007 5:47:06 PM)
We should all be grateful that we have Gen. Peter Pace at the helm. He is a leader we can all be proud of. While he may have made a mistake by expressing his own views on morality--especially in the very visible position he is in--I don't think he would ever let those opinions color his judgment. Let's get off his back...he has more pressing issues to deal with.
Laura, San Diego, California (Sent Mar 14, 2007 4:42:16 PM)
If so many of you on this board think that homosexuality is immoral and homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to serve in the military, why stop there? Why not bar them from working in schools, hospitals, banks, movie theaters, coffee shops, basically anywhere? My guess is that most would answer "because that is wrong, discriminitory, they have a right to work". Why should the military be any different?
It is appalling to me that when so many states have passed laws banning discrimination of homosexuals in hiring practices, the government continues to practice its own discrimination. This is supposed to be the land free from persecution, religious or otherwise. What happened to that? Why has this country become so bent on passing laws that govern values? What gives the government the right to tell me what my values should be?
Tony, CT (Sent Mar 14, 2007 3:27:08 PM)
I trained and for a short time actually served beside my straight brothers and sisters. everyone in my basic flight and some in tech school either knew from me telling them in confidantes or one of the many rumors that circulated that there was gay people in the squad. Did them knowing affect their attitudes towards me; I be lying if I said no. But the ones that did have problems, “grew up” and realized that I was no different then them. Even on indirectly apologized on graduation day.
As I got to my next base it came to my attention that my orders were actually terminated. (The issue of them finding out I was gay is long, lets just say I told public health who in turned told his first shirt who in turned told mine, who said no name would be given but it was given from an email/letter from my first shirt to my commanding officer at my first base). As they searched out the reasoning why; my sponsor helped me settle in, I got to know people on the base(even suto-dated a guy on base) and in town, even had my truck in the shop for a week. About 2mnths after reporting in I was called into my commanders office who opened up the folder and there was the letter, and down went my military career. I eventually told my shop what was going on, if it wasn’t for them knowing it would be out of line they all wanted to walk up to him and give them a piece of their mind.
As I looked back, I know I should I've bent the truth but it would go against the Christian raising I was brought up in. I cant say the discharge was bad I meet the man of my dreams and have a wonderful life now. But (hopefully) when that day comes the out dated policy (that the conservative right wings use as a crutch instead of accepting others in a Christian manner) DADT gets thrown out the books I will be re-enlisting, and back into uniform making a difference, because that’s were I am suppose to be and I miss it every day.
JW Parker SF CA (Sent Mar 14, 2007 3:19:21 PM)
General Pace is entitled to his opinion, but, if he only new how damaging those comment are to everyone. Especially young adults that are struggling with the feeling, not to mention those serving in our military.
steve (Sent Mar 14, 2007 3:11:07 PM)
The majority of Americans stay out of this debate because they are smart enough to understand that there are gays in every walk of life including schools, government, community outreach, ministries, military, and yes even their own families. Once again, extremr elements of our society for what ever reason have to play into a divisive issue that they have no control over and should stay out of including our tabloid driven press corp. They had to put something in there to fill the void ANS left.
General Pace himself admitted without having to apoligize that he should have focused on a Military response and not his own. That in military speak is an apology. He is not my spokesperson for the "gay" community and I'm not his spokesperson for the military code of conduct.
So let's all pretend to get along and try to love our neighbors even if they are gay. Someday they may save your life because they're also doctors!
The myth. That only enlisted are gay. The truth. I know when I served that there were high ranking military officers that were gay and everyone knew it...we've come along way baby
Leo - Madison, WI (Sent Mar 14, 2007 2:28:47 PM)
First, let's examine General Pace's statement: "I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts."
Pace did not say that being a homosexual is immoral; he was commenting on the conduct. There was no reference to someone's sexual orientation; his reference was to the conduct.
The military has regulations about heterosexual conduct that is considered immoral. Adultery and fraternization are illegal under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
Let's not forget what happened in July 1998 to 10 united States naval personnle for participating in an orgy in a Hong Kong hotel room. There were no "cries" for the moral judgment against these persons.
The Uniform Code of Military Justice was implemented by those who know more about military conduct than we civilians.
General Pace is correct about the conduct of those in the military.
Lib Ashworth Lewisville, NC (Sent Mar 14, 2007 1:38:32 PM)
Whatever happended to the separation of church and state? Not all people in this country believe in God and we can't force that on them. Those of you who are Christians....only God can judge us when that day comes so why do you care what other people do? Stop trying to force your beliefs on others. I was in the Army for 10 years and met Gay and Lesbians at every duty station I was assigned to. They acted no different than straight soldiers.
(Sent Mar 14, 2007 12:11:26 PM)
As a lesbian, I do not blame either Clinton for "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." That was 14 years ago. Ellen hadn't even come out yet, the attitudes towards homosexuals was significantly different (we were just happy folks weren't coming after us with torches and pitch forks). The DADT policy was a first step in a still very hostile climate. But, as the general population (minus those who get their information from the James Dobsons & Jerry Falwells') has grown to realize that being gay or lesbian doesn't mean someone is less than human (woohoo! for progress), the same policy that Bill Clinton put in place is now logically the one that Hilary Clinton believes should be repealed. This does not tarnish her a hypocrite; it just shows the difference in the environment. Only those who so loathe Mrs. Clinton would be eager to use her present stance against her.
Tracy West Hollywood, Calif. (Sent Mar 14, 2007 11:26:16 AM)
What goes on between consenting adults in the privacy of their own homes shouldn't concern anyone. With all of the problems we face in the world today why are we wasting our time and energy on this? War, genocide, starvation, global warming, economic decline, the slow death of New Orleans, environmental destruction, crime, drug abuse, racism, poverty, misogyny, oil dependence, child abuse, I could go on and on.
(Sent Mar 14, 2007 11:03:56 AM)
I am so glad to be able to comment on General Pace's statement of homosexuality being immoral. I participated in a poll yesterday on MSNBC.Com and 70% of those polled agreed that Gen. Pace should NOT apologize! There are a small MINORITY of Americans that are homosexual, and a large MAJORITY of Americans that believe homosexuality IS immoral -- no different than adultery, pediofilia, or wanting to have sex with animals. Just because a wealthy minority of Americans WANT to persue their immoral lifestyle CHOICE doesn't mean anyone should have to zip up their lips - ESPECIALLY the leaders of what should be a country of high moral standards. EVERYONE, even a General, has the right to free speech -- even when it angers a small segment of the population.
Abby, VaBch (Sent Mar 14, 2007 10:10:28 AM)
It's very interesting that Hillary, Obama, Edwards and NBC news folks have such strong opinions on gays in the military when they never actually served our country in that capacity. I am a retired Marine "combat" officer with almost 23 years of service and remember when President Clinton tried to force his opinion on the military. Hundreds - possibly thousands - of USMC officers prepared to lay down their commissions and get out of the Corps. The troops also held the President in contempt and prepared to do similarly. The fact is - there is still a trace of Biblically-obtained sentiment left in America. And, as the Bible is explicit on the subject of homosexuality, calling it an "abomination" against God, so are the opinions of Americans who actually believe in the God Who authored the holy text. I have personally overseen investigations into many, many homosexual predators who, through various means, raped straight service people while they were incapacitated. And, I personally witnessed hundreds of Marines who were going to kill a homosexual who assaulted a Marine while sleeping during the Gulf War '91. If you insist on doing this - you will decimate the finest fighting force the world has ever known - because, decent men will no longer enter the Armed Forces. Then you will have your wish -"politically-correct" Armed Forces that cannot win wars. Up to you - I've retired and am now disgusted by the liberals I once protected at the risk of my life.
(Sent Mar 13, 2007 10:37:37 PM)
This is in no way like the integration issue of black Americans. Black Americans were discriminated against on the basis of color not their behavior. It is homosexual behavior that is not wanted. If they didn't want gays in the military at all, they would simply have a policy of "Don't sign up, even if you keep your sexual practices private."
As far as mister "Air Force Sgt." above is concerned...what military are you serving in again? I know tons of military personel and the thought of showering, dressing, and bunking with openly gay men makes them none too comfortable. Let me ask you a question: Should women be forced to shower, dress, and bunk in the same quarters as men? Would they not have a right to be sexually uncomfortable? Would this discomfort not be reasonable? Now can you understand how most guys in the military feel?
I have a great idea. Why don't you let military personel vote on it in a secret ballot? If the openness to gays is a widespread as you seem to think it is, then you have nothing to fear. My guess is it will go the route of gay marriage in state referendums (i.e. an outright rejection).
(Sent Mar 13, 2007 10:15:37 PM)
I was in the Navy a couple of years back, and I already back then knew I was gay. I didn't act on it until i got out with my honorable discharge. I think it's funny how Gen. Pace Talks about morals, and the one thing on every male service member's mind when you get to certain foreign countries was getting laid, married or single (and most all places you where going to pay for it). I think his morals or like some priest, praying with one hand, but making sure you are not watching his other hand.
Ken, St Louis, MO (Sent Mar 13, 2007 10:11:28 PM)
What if Gen. Pace is giving us the code to avoid being sent to Iraq? Simply admit you are gay. If it works, then in 10-12 years when we finally withdraw from Iraq, all the straight individuals will be gone and sexual orientation will no longer be an issue.
Concerned Citizen (Sent Mar 13, 2007 9:46:25 PM)
The General's comments are his alone, and he is entitled to his feelings. I may not agree with his feelings, but he is entitled to them.
As a highly public figure...when he speaks in uniform...he is an agent for whatever organization's uniform he may be wearing. He should be more disciplined when stating his opinion while in uniform.
That being said, the "don't ask, don't tell" policy IS discrimination. Forcing someone to repress their true self is bad in any sense. Do they think batallions will break into Judy Garland or Bette Davis impressions when they come under fire? I just don't get their logic. They seem to have no problem with heterosexual people of the opposite sex being in the same batallion? How is it different than a homosexual and a heterosexual of the same sex being in the same batallion? The difference is that the heterosexual couple might do naughty stuff where as the homosexual man won't get anywhere with the heterosexual man. So where is the logic?
IT IS IGNORANCE...OLD SCHOOL IGNORANCE. In time it will go away...but as long as these Old-school men are running the joint...it won't change. Studies have shown that the current generation really could care less if someone is gay or straight. So...things will change...it is just a matter of when.
The real problem is that qualified, intelligent, people, the most famous of who were arabic translators, have been booted out of the service in a time of utmost urgency for us to have people with those skills in the service trying to clean up the mess that this administration has made. Perhaps we would be in a different place in this war with intelligent people who knew the language and understood the culture...but we will never know becuase of ingorant policies like "don't ask, Don't tell"
Jeff de Lapp, Laguna Beach, CA (Sent Mar 13, 2007 9:25:11 PM)
General Pace is right and should not apologize. Homosexual behaviour is immoral and indecent. I am appalled that NBC News reported this story tonight in such a way that presumes that homosexuality is normal and legitimate. It is not any more acceptable than any other sexual perversion, be it fornication, adultery, pedophilia, or bestiality. By the way, there is a God in heaven before whose judgement seat we all must one day stand, even NBC News.
(Sent Mar 13, 2007 8:39:27 PM)
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