Taliban in our sights?
Editor's note: This story has evolved since this original posting. Click here for the latest and to see the photo in question.
KABUL, Afghanistan - In this country, just a tad smaller than President Bush’s home state of Texas, Taliban influence is on the rise. The U.S. military admits difficulty tracking their fighters in Afghanistan’s remote mountains. It’s why U.S. intelligence officers are so upset by a recent lost opportunity.
The picture above, declassified at NBC News' request, shows 190 members of the Taliban at a funeral. It’s believed by U.S. Army officers that several of those gathered were top Taliban leaders. But the U.S. was unable to take out the men standing in formation.
Why? Under the rules of engagement, the U.S. cannot bomb a cemetery.
One officer involved says, "We were so excited. I came rushing in with the picture." But in the end, that excitement turned to frustration. The unmanned Predator drone, flying undetected overhead, continued to feed back pictures as the Taliban dispersed, heading off in tiny groups, too small to effectively target.
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The US is a superpower that is reducing itself to a laughing stock in the eyes of terrorists because of the restrictive ROE it places on its combatants when those its fighting do not give a hoot about such rules. I wonder how WWII would have turned
if these ROEs were in play then. Remember Japan was bombed (cemetries, hospitals, temples, civilians etc included) into surrender!
(Sent Sep 13, 2006 4:46:28 PM)
At best, the combat theater is a chaotic dance between the known and unknown. In Afganistan, it is made even more difficult by the presence of numerous militias, both friendly and hostile, to our efforts there.
Trust me, we don't have enough information to make a shoot or no shoot call from the comfort of our homes. For all we know, we had assets implanted with this unit that could lead us to Bin Laden. You can bet the fire control officer knew more than we ever will.
The rules of engagement exist to that we can focus our assets on the true battlefield objectives,and the "big picture" ie winning the war on terror. The death tally has no bearing on whether or not we succeed. This is a battle for the hearts and minds of the Afgan people, and nothing moves us further from our victory than ignoring the rules of engagement.
For every innocent Afgan or Iraqi we kill, we make eight "terrorists" for al Queda. If it was just about body counts we would have nuked the place!
Just thank the good Lord, that we have young men and women in our military that have the courage to make these difficult calls, regardless of what the arm chair warriors think.
To whoever the FCO was on this operation, Carry on, job well done! HOOAH!
Rob Ferris, San Diego, California (Sent Sep 13, 2006 4:37:23 PM)
I am sure there are other photos of this gathering. As for if they may be women and children, I have my doubts. The group is in formation and do we know what time of day was this photo taken? I would have to agree that rules of engagement should not be apply in this case. They would not have thought twice about killing us if it was reverse.
(Sent Sep 13, 2006 4:27:20 PM)
first to those who think these are civilians, ever see that many people dressed into proper military like ranks before, not many.. second do you think they just found this? someone obviously said where it was going to be and Who might be there.. And yes they have killed us at work, at rest, in our meetings and even at our funerals.. The only person in history to make an impact on this hatred that fuels the Al Qaida and other alike, was Alexander the Great, and he only did so by putting the rules aside, to a point, and winning... And please Geneva Convention?? we are one of maybe three signators who ever even cared what that piece of paper even said, remember all those who they have beheaded.. and tortured.. because we represent a threat to their brainwashed ideals nothing else.. and beyond the levels of that to get information.. we have so many lawyers controlling how we ask not interrogate anymore.. they don't mind getting caught... because we will treat them better, and they will know how long we keep them before we release them the next time.. how many of our troops or civilians.. got royal treatment...
(Sent Sep 13, 2006 4:01:46 PM)
If we do not take ALL reasonable steps to take out the terrorists who would destroy the United States we are fools and will only guarantee that the future of this nation is in future jeopardy. If we have probable cause to believe that terrorists are gathered in a place, any place including a cemetary, and we can take them out with a minimum of "collateral damage" we ought to do it. The "average American", which does not include leftist politicians, is still united as they were on Sept 11, 2001 in the firm conviction that we'd better not, ever again, let terrorists attack our country. To keep them from doing that we need to strike them where they are whenever we can.
Jerry Boyd Baker City Oregon (Sent Sep 13, 2006 3:14:08 PM)
How do we know they are Taliban and not civilians?
If they are civilians, and we bomb them and we've bombed weddings in the past, won't that just turn them further against the US?
DJL (Sent Sep 13, 2006 2:58:49 PM)
Rules of engagement! Ridiculous. The Taliban have no such rules. I think our service men and women deserve better than this!
(Sent Sep 13, 2006 12:37:27 PM)
I find it interesting that most folks responding here are eager to drop munitions on 90 'specs of humanity' shown in a photo without seeming to ask themselves a few questions, to wit: How do I know this is a Taliban Funeral? How do I know these are combatants, and not relatives (remember those women, children, aunts, uncles etc. who often attend funerals)? Is there a tactical or strategic objective being satisfied by targetting this group?
Stabilizing Afghanistan is all about moving away from tribalism and towards a non-serf like economy. In my opinion bombing unnamed targets from the sky will never make a significant difference. Providing food and reconstruction jobs, builing / operating schools, and generating face to face relationships (as was done in Europe after WWII) is real nation building.
I believe the War on Terror is a farce -- nowhere comparable to WWII in damages done to civilian populations and national infrastructers. We would be much more effective introducing targeted aide programs than introducing occupation forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Alas, the chicken hawks love to shout "death from above" as they drive their BMW's to work each morning.
It has always been easier to kill than build, and this administration has always taken the easy road.
Jon Wallace (Sent Sep 13, 2006 12:33:22 PM)
This is why we will ultimately lose the war on terrorism. Our lofty high-minded principals are assinine and inappropriate in situations such as this.
Does anyone honestly think they would not bomb our cemetaries, schools, old age homes, anything, if they had the opportunity? Please, spare me the crocodile tears for these animals........
Gene, Phila, PA (Sent Sep 13, 2006 12:11:43 PM)
The end justifies the means....the new US policy ala Bush.
This makes us no better than those we profess to fight.
They hate us for our policies, not our freedom.
(Sent Sep 13, 2006 11:49:28 AM)
I agree. This is clearly propaganda to cover up their inability to take these guys down. They could have waited until the funeral was over and taken them out in groups. But now they can offer up restrictive rules of engagement as an excuse to hide the fact the Taliban have a broad base of popular support, which for some odd reason the U.S. (but not the U.N. or NATO) is loathe to admit.
(Sent Sep 13, 2006 11:18:02 AM)
Lowest common denominator. They would kill us at a funeral, therefore gak them at one. These are not people that hold to the Geneva Conference, or any morality other than what they have been brainwashed to believe, and we cannot hope to defeat them without breaking a few eggs. Can you win a game if you play by the rules and the other players don't?
(Sent Sep 13, 2006 9:05:51 AM)
I don't get it, We can not bomb a cemetary? Why should we care if its a cemetary in the lands of our enemy where Top leaders have gathered. Take them out! A cemetary is a holy place, but this one is probably a place where the Taliban have buried others before, for them I don't consider this a holy place.
Another missed opportunity, by the faults of our so called leaders and thier rules of engagement. Those rules need to be modified for certain situations such as this.
Ron, Miami (Sent Sep 13, 2006 7:36:23 AM)
We need to get over Western conventions when dealing with terrorist. They make it a practice to attack funerals as has been reported from Iraq to this past weeks attack on a funeral in Afghanistan.
Being considerate of others who fly planes into buildings and bomb markets is stupid and sounds like some idiotic UN resolution. Kill them at every opportunity as they call their followers to do to us.
S. Heitz, Bamberg, Germany (Sent Sep 13, 2006 6:10:38 AM)
Let's talk RULES and LAWS!
President Bush recently announced on WORLD WIDE TELEVISION that we have been holding
detainees from the Afghan and Iraq "WARS" in secret prisons around the world. He also stated that
tough interrogation procedures were being used. He would not detail the procedures other than state
they were beyond the Geneva Conventions agreements and they were justified.
Our GI's are now at SERIOUS RISK of INHUMANE TORTURE if captured in Afghanistan, Iraq or any future WAR anywhere in the world.
President Bush has THROWN THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS OUT THE WINDOW!
Our GI's will suffer horribly as a result since no other nation will now feel obligated.
Our GI's will have the fingernails and toenails ripped out. Their GENITALS will be connected to electrodes
and high voltage applied. Their eyes will be slowly pierced with sharp objects. If you can think of a
torture that might make someone talk our enemies will now consider it fair game. Bush's zeal to do
everything possible to fight the war on terror is going to come back to America and haunt us for generations.
Bush has asked Congress to POST DATE a bill to March of 2001 which grants him authority to ignore
the torture restrictions of the Geneva Conventions. Duncan Hunter is siding with Bush to pass a bill to authorize MILITARY COMMISIONS for POW's (Detainee's). If passed it will result in every American Soldier captured in current and future conflicts being executed or put in foreign prisons for life.
Bush does not get it, the terrorists are against us for what we DO not because we are a free and democratic
country. Bin Laden stated he was against us because we had 10,000 troops in Saudi Arabia and because
we invaded Iraq and becuase we supported Israel while they destroied Southern Lebanon.
To win the "WAR ON TERROR" we have to change what we DO!
Jim Frego
Jim Frego Grants Pass, OR (Sent Sep 13, 2006 3:13:24 AM)
I don't get excited anymore when the Taliban topic is brought to my attention...We (americans) were told the the Taliban were no longer a threat by Pres. Bush...so why are they coming back? leadership needs to change in this country and fast-let our military do its job and come home...
Chad, North Dakota (Sent Sep 12, 2006 8:01:50 PM)
Secret prisons, questionable as legal by many countries.
Water boarding as a method of getting answers, considered torture by many countries.
Wiretapping of Americans, questionable legality.
Military trials, ruled illegal by the courts.
As long as it is done in secret the Bush administration considers it to be legal.
If they could have killed all the people at the funeral without the general public knowing all those people on the ground would now be dead.
Dewey Quong, Reno, NV (Sent Sep 12, 2006 7:42:28 PM)
Jeez, Louise!
This president uses the Constitution for a welcome mat, ignores due process, ignores citizens' rights and lies pathologically, but honors graveyard rules of engagement when there are 60 of them standing around?
(Sent Sep 12, 2006 7:11:19 PM)
While i respect your holy ground argument i would be tempted to overlook it in favor of allowing a situational strike predicated on technology-- why watch and not react ? Western thought needs modification because the war zone has evolved.
bruce duncan enfield, ct (Sent Sep 12, 2006 4:27:27 PM)
Too small to target?
Predators have taken out individual cars before
why not pick a group of 10 after the funeral
sounds bogus
(Sent Sep 12, 2006 4:11:03 PM)
Figures. We play by rules. They use suicide bombers. How can we win?
Joie in Tampa (Sent Sep 12, 2006 1:51:16 PM)
I think our rules of engagement need to be modified.
Anne, Wyoming (Sent Sep 12, 2006 12:45:17 PM)
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