MY GOD!!! THIS IS NOT A WAR. THIS IS A MASSACRE. Israel is much superior than Lebanese in term of weaponry. Lebanese is fighting alone against Israel and the rest of the superpower

To Fred, I am looking for a solution. A real solution. I have read most of the ideas people offered. I still see no way out. I will not get into who killed who last, who has who in prison. It is all meaningless. With the current leadership in Gasa and the west bank there is only one logical solution. Kill or be killed. The people you support have offered no other solution. Do you understand that the US is all that is holding Isreal back at this point. That killing is all the Arab governments have supported and continue to use the Palastines for. In 1948 the UN made a two state solution, note both states were to have mixed peoples. Had that been supported by the Arab states not only would there been a homeland for all the birthrates of those different peoples would have shaped the countries into nothing like what we see today. Both would have had a non Jewish majority. We can not go back to many wars to many deaths to many broken treaties. Too many usless UN resolutions. Isreal will never allow the ones who left back to take over their government and use the government to take away their rights as was done in Germany leading up to WW2. It is a non starter. So again i say kill or be killed. Can you offer a better solution? My feelings right now are why are we beating around the bush. Isreal should just push everyone out of Gaza the west bank and southern lebanon. If the roles were reversed is that not what your side would do? You should answer that directly because the only elected voice of the palestinians has that position.

Fred, i am going to offer you and the Palestinians a way out. First who are your friends? You have to ask this and try to answer it before you can understand who you can trust. Lets look at the players:
1. Arab states money and wepons supplied to Hamas and Hezbollah some of that money is being used to make the lives of their supporters better. Think about it they have enough money to buy off major powers and that is all they have for the palestinians. However no money for the elected governemnt, no support for the democercy in Gaza or the west bank. We found that out when Hamas was elected. No support for the people in Gaza and the west bank electing their own government. All the money came from the west. did anyone know that over there? See the problem with the Arab states supporting those instutions is that they lose control. And controling the Palestinians is all they really want. It is ok for Egypt and Jorden to have peace. Syira would sell out Hezbollah in a minute for the golan heights. It is fine for all of them to make peace with Israel but not the Palestinians. They alone must suffer. I noticed you are writing from the US not Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Jorden, Syira why is that? Might it be because most of them have laws not allowing palestinians homes there. And more laws ensureing christians suffer even more. I will ask you again who are the Friends of the Palestinians?
2. The US, lets see we support Israel so we must be bad. We only want oil. We can not be friends of the Palestinians. Do not notice any good we might be doing. Do not notice all the peace agreements that only could have come with our support. Do not notice all of the money that really goes to both sides. With us bank rolling the UN and the money going to modorate Arab governments. Do not notice the US men and women dieing each day in support of a majority in Iraq backed by Iran. Do not notice that all we really want is a stable Middle East with elected governments. I ask you again who are the friends of the Palestinans?
3. The UN lets see they pass resolutions with no way to back them up. They talk alot and do very little. They hate Israel and have made it clear. I think Israel is the only nation not allowed to be on the security concel. But have they forced or tried to force the Arab governments to help the Palestinians? Or are they part of the problem...if there was peace and no suffering of the Palestinians how could they keep all this hate going for Israel? One thing going for the UN is that they can be bought to bad the palestinians have no money.
4. Europe....they can be bought too but cost a little more then the UN. So a bit out of reach for the palestinians. Notice Europe and the UN in this crises. Both want israel to stop defending its self. Both know this will not happen but for the arab governments this plays well and in most cases it also pays well. Those arab governments have lots of oil money. They can buy France and Germany and the UN but not help the Palestinians. Fred have you ever asked yourself why? Europe askes Israel to stop defending its self when if Germeny was attacking France with rockets and killing its troops they would level each other. Governments like that who play to whatever tone supports their agenda can not be trusted. So fred i ask again who are the friends of the palestinians?
I said i would offer you a way out. It is simple really. The UN had it right in 48 accept your state and build from there. Have a homeland, focus on getting rights to water, natural resources, power and most of all both western aid and arab aid. Build a country live in peace. Raise children who respect life and see a better future then blowing themselfs up. It is all right there, but, because you do not know who your true friends are your people will never see it. It is a shame because in a kill or be killed world at this time in history your side will die. Iran and a nuke might make things intresting but lets face it who do you think will suffer more....Israel or the Palestinians my money is on the palestinians. I can see it on TV now....palestinian children happy and shouting their support of Iran as the cloud passes over choaking them to death. The Arab states will let the world know you died well and it was Israel's fault.....Who are your friends?

One more note tonight for Anonymous questioning if the Hebrews have title to Jerusalem of Nazarene.
You interpet this word in an entirely different way than I do.
1) Palestinians (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Mandeans, aetheists) have title to Palestine of 1948.
2) Any/all non-Palestinian (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Mandeans, aetheists) have title to 0 in Palestine. They are not even allowed to consume oxygen molecules from the air in Palestine. The Jews of Iran are Iranian citizens; they can't occupy Japan or Palestine or any other country, regardless if they invoke their book or the famous novel 'The Thorn Birds.'
The problem is the interpretation of the word:Judaism.
My interpretation:Judaism is a RELIGION, not a nationality. It has believers in it with DIFFERENT nationalities who are French, Italians, Latvians, Estonians..etc. Each should live in his/her home country and go to his local religious institution and pray inside. If you have another intepretation, obviously, that's your right.

Dear MSNBC:I hope there is no need to write something twice for your to post it.
1) Dear Anonymous:So far, neither you(nor anyone in the entire world) has proven that that part of the world is the homeland of the Jews. No need to remind you, more Jews live outside of Israel than inside of it. They are the BIGGEST proof that it's not their homeland.
I'll get you the exact wording in English of the birth of Jesus the Messiah in the Koran(within the next few days.) The Koran said He's born of the Spirit of God(obviously, not of a biological father.)
Apparently, you are anti-Koran. If you don't want to quote from any book, neglet ALL of them, the Koran, the Old Testaments, the New one, Ghita, book of Budhists...etc. Put it in your notes "That eliminated any need to cite any of the religious books, including ALL books"(instead of what you wrote.)
YOu accepted others/have been accepted by others:I can't fully comment on that unless I know if you are an Israeli person, an American jewish person or an American Budhist/Hindu/..etc. Accepting good people is ok. Accepting your enemy is NOT. Do NOT blame the French for not accepting Germans on French soil back in WWII. The number of Germans occupying France had to drop down to zero. The Iranians who immigrated to the US applied for/received visas. The Italians terrorists in the Hagana were SMUGGLED by the British into Palestine. The Iranians did NOT committ massacres agains the Americans, did not kick Americans out. The Italian Jewish terrorists in the Hagana COMMITTED MASSACRES/KICKED PALESTINIANS OUT OF THIER HOMES(PLS., BE OBJECTIVE.)
Responding to your "whole point is that peace is what we need in the world for everyone...etc." I FULLY agree with you. The Palestinians did not harm the Budhists of China or the Jews of Brazil. This is peace. They have the right to defend their homeland against Italians or Brazilians 'settling' in Palestine. That does not mean they don't like peace. The US defended itself against Japanese Budhists. It does NOT mean the US hates peace. Do you mean to say the French should have accepted the Nazis in WWII (in the name of peace?!!!!!!) Do you mean the US should not have gone to war against Japan in the name of peace?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can love peace AND defend yourself from Italians(Christians and Jews), Germans(Christians and Jews), Brazilians(Christians and Jews.)
RE. the name of the president/Prime Minister:YOu can refer to my posting a few days ago:Before 1776, we had no President here in the US. Do you think that's a shame? Eventually, we had a President, cabinet, army, navy...etc. The Palestinians are in the stage equivalent to pre-1776 for the US. (By the way, what was the name of the Israeli Prime Minister before the British pulled out of Palestine?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
As to Jewish blood in me, I will GLADLY convert to Judaism, IF THAT GUARANTEES MY RETURN TO PALESTINE. (Pls., ask around if a Rabbi will convert me and let me know of the phone no/address.)
2) Dear Pat:A German-made Stuka bomber cost lots of money during the late 1930's dropping bombs is, by definition, designed to destroy a military target. Do you think the German Nazis were correct in what did during WWII?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't have to remind you, a few weeks ago a war ship of the terrorist Hagana FIRED ON UNARMED PALESTINIANS CIVILIANS, killing a father and his 4 sons, leaving 1 daughter alive. The TV satellites showed they were eating corn!!!!! Correct me if I'm wrong, corn is not a military target. Pls., do NOT hide the shame of the Hagana. In 1982, an Israeli court found Ariel Sharon indirectly responsible for the massacres of hundreds of UNARMED PALESTINIANS CIVILIANS in Beirut. The court recommended he should never be defence minister again. The Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Italians, Russians, Ukranians occupying Palestine voted him as Prime Minister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Quality people electing quality officials!!!!!!!!!!!)
I didn't attempt to defame the US/England. I was telling you civilians may get killed at the hands of the "good guys". We agree on this 1. However, I don't include Israel or the Hagana in the list of "good guys."
YOu understood my thesis(as prior notes) as usual.
There is no such thing as Israel to recognize. You can't destroy something that does not exist.
My thesis is:The Italians(Christians and Jews) should go back to their Italy. Same for Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Russians, Ukranians, Turks, Morrocans, Yemenis, Persians. Do you expect peace to come to the Middle East when they are there? How did peace come back to Europe? Nazi Germany had to be destroyed. Or, if I may re-phrase, ALL Germans left/were sent back to their German. Am I wrong?

Fred:

I wish I were as brilliant as you must be. You keep saying that MSNBC is deleting your intelligent posts. Oh, how my heart aches to write something that is so wonderful that MSNBC would determine is just too great to share with the rest of the world.

But seriously now...
You are obviously irrational and afraid to or unable to understand common sense.

You said it isn't anti-semitic to hate Israel because they only make up a small percentage of the semetic people. And--as someone else has already pointed out-- fabricated an argument that I didn't make by saying that I indicated that we should wipe all semetic people off the face of the earth. When in fact, what I said was I hope Israel does what the rest of the world is afraid to do and wipe them, them be terrorists the subject of my post, off the face of the earth. Just because I want them eradicated does not mean that I hate the whole group. Or, are you trying to tell me that the only way it doesn't apply to the whole is if the portion of the group in question is small (Only 5%).

People are people Fred, 5% is just as significant as 95%. It reminds me of the story of Abraham. You said you are a Christian so I'm sure you know the story. Abraham talked with God before he, God, was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. He basically said, "God, will you spare the city if there are only 15 righteous people there." And God said, I will spare the city for 15 people. And Abraham negotiated, for lack of a better word, down to five. "God, will you destroy the city if there are only five..." And God said, "I wil not destroy the city if I can find five." When God couldn't find at least 5 people, he sent an angel to save the ones who were righteous. Tell me Fred, if only 5% of Jews are semetic people, can't you be at peace with 95% of them on account of 5% percent? Must you hate? Will you see the 5% dead along with the 95%?

Okay, let's see...you've called me anti-semetic and compared me to the nazis. But you know what, that's okay. I can handle be compared to nazis, I can handle being called anti-semetic and I won't even try to argue the point with you. You've obviously made up your mind and are unable to think rationally.

By the way, I do remember gradeschool math. I know that 5% is 95% less that 100%. But we are talking about people, not percentages. Maybe you are the one with nazi tendencies in the conversation. You see only numbers and an agenda and fail to see the humanity behind it. I however, like the allied forces who conquered the Nazis see the humanity that is being hurt by the hate of a small group. Islamic terrorists are the Nazis of the 21st Century and your hate of Israel as a whole and your support of Islamic terrorists who would kill innocent women and children --not to blow up a bomb or military outpost but just to hurt, and scare-- shows that it is you, not me who spread hate.

Finally, It was Israel, who guarded and protected the message of God. Jesus came out of Israel, the original church that we call the christian church today originated as a sect of Judaism. And it is Israel who is the legitimate heir to Abraham's promise. If you are indeed a Christian as you say, you owe your hope and salvation to the work of a Jew.

Pat-As usual, you mis-interpret my writings; your mistake as the listener/reader, not that of the writer/sender of the message.
I was NOT defaming the US/UK when they carpet bombed German cities. Quite the opposite, they had the right. A $50 million dollar F-15 in the hand of Italian Jewish terrorists in the Hagana is as bad as Katyusha rockets inthe hands of Hezbollah; indeed, it's worse. BAD people are BAD. Do not think Jews are immune from bad or killing civilians. Do not think the non-Jews of the world are immune from good or killing terrorists(not cilians) in the Hagana. Do you think the Luftwaffe that flew expensive Stuka's in WWII were right in killing French? invading France? killling civilan French? military French? that the SS that used expensive equipment in killing innocent civilians in concentration camps were 'right' simply for using expensive equipment?!!!!
Since the beginning of my notes I wrote:BOTH sides are bad/terrorists. Do you dare say that about the Israeli Hagana?!!!!!!!!
Further, there is no such thing as Israel to recognize, let alone destroy(read my comments a few days ago). It was simple for these Italians/Lithuanis/Latvians to sail in the Mediterranean bound east. Why is difficult for them to sail bound west?!!! No war, no destruction. You can not destroy something that does NOT exist. Don't Jews believe in nationalism? Or simply religion? The God of the Bible was/is/will NOT be the exclusive property of the Jews. Billions of Christians believe in the old Testament. Do you want them to live in the 'promised land?'(PLEASE, ANSWER THIS QUESTION IN YOUR REPLY.)
TO Anonymous:The Koran says Jesus is from the SPIRIT OF GOD(I'll get you the exact wording in English within the next couple of days). Obviously, SPIRIT OF GOD is NOT a biological father.
No need to cite the Koran, likewise any other religious book, INCLUDING THAT OF THE JEWS!!(We are all back to point zero!!!)
President or Prime Minister of Palestine pre-Israel:I answered that question a few days ago. I'll repeat:Before 1776, we had no President/cabinet in the US. That does NOT mean we should not get one. We had a country, president/ cabinet, navy/army AFTER British occupation left the US. After getting rid of Turks(1918), Britsh occupied Palestine until 1948. They smuggled hundreds of thousands of Italians/Lithuanians/Latvians who had no loyalty to their homelands. Of course there was not President(just like the US before 1776.) Does that mean the Palestinians should not creatE their own state and elect a president/parliament/cabinet?!!!!!!!
I don't know if you are Jewish or Christian, but I'll consider both situations.
1)Jewish:You believe God chose the Jews, but none OF THE NON-JEWS of the world and rewarded you with that part of the world. THIS IS RACISM. GOD CHOSE IN THE PAST, CHOOSES NOW AND WILL CHOOSE IN THE FUTURE ALL HUMAN BEINGS(JEWS AND NON-JEWS ON EQUAL GROUND WITH RIGHTS/DUTIES.) WHY would God reward you with something but not me or mother Teresa?!!!!!!!!
2)You are Christian:Likewise, there are millions of Christias like you and me. DO YOU WANT THEM TO GO LIVE IN THE PROMISED LAND?!!!!!!!!!!(PLEASE, ANSWER ME WITH 'YES' OR 'NO'-DO NOT EVADE THIS QUESTION.)
As to accepting/rejecting others/immigrants/Arabs in Israel/Iranian immigrants to the US:
The Germans in WWII did NOT immigrate to France. They invaded/occupied it. The French had every right to reject them(or not accept them.) ALL of them should leave France. The Iranians here applied/received immigration visas. They did NOT invade it. If they did, ALL OF THEM SHOULD LEAVE.
As to our beloved Israelis, that's the core of the point:You claim they 'returned', I claim they invaded/occupied. It's a question that will never be answered within the foreseeable future, certaily, not at least these falks remember that Judaism is a religion, NOT a nationality. That 'their' God is the God OF ALL HUMAN BEINGS who were chosen on EQUAL GROUNDS LIKE THE JEWS; accordingly, anyone who believe in the Bible can go to the promised land. Do you want that?!!!!!!!! Please, answer with a 'Yes' or a 'No.'

By the way, Fred, who was the President of the country you say existed called Palestine? Or the Prime Minister? And yes, I do mean pre-Israel. Can you name the governmental figures of the country you say was there?

Are you actually trying to claim that Hebrews have no claim on Jerusalem, much less Nazarene?

Do you even know the origins of the name, Palestinian? Your claim that Canaanites are the modern-day Palestinians is not substanciated, which is because it's not actually true. The modern-day Israelis and the modern-day Palestinians share the same genetics - it's more likely that the modern-day Palestinians are one of, or part of, one of the lost tribes of Israel than anything else...which would actually account for why the other Arabs always treated them like lesser citizens in the first place.

I wonder how you would react if that were ever proven true, that you yourself carry around Jewish blood in your veins.

Fred, an F-15 costing $50 million dollars dropping a $1 million dollar smart bomb is, by definition, designed to destroy a military target. As John of IL desperately tried to get through your head, if the goal was to kill civilians, there would be no one left in Lebanon or "Palestine" to worry about. Israel proves through it's massive military expenditures that it does everything possible not to kill civilians.

But civilians do die in war. And unfortunately they may die at the hands of the "good guys" who didn't start the war....like Israel.....and the US/England in WWII who you attempt to defame.

But the targets of your Palestinian brethren are always civilians, aren't they?

Hey, I understand why your posts are so convoluted. I can't imagine trying to defend you position.

Your thesis seems to be "destroy Israel and there will be peace in the middle east". Is this correct?

"Why is it difficult for you to understand that if the Palestinians are spread across the Middle East that they should go back to thier homeland. If you don't have physical possession of something, that does NOT mean you lose title to it!!(Ask a lawyer.)"

Why is it difficult for you to understand that if the Hebrews are spread across the world that they should go back to their homeland. If you don't have physical possession of something, that does NOT mean you lose title to it!!(Ask a lawyer.)"

Of course I've read the Koran - wherein it clearly states that Jesus was NOT born of the immaculate conception believed in by Christians. But, so what? After all:

"If you want to open the door of quoting from the Bible, you can't close the door on others. You have to listen to the Hindus and the Ghita, the Budhists and thier book...etc.(the list of religions is endless.) You'll face the following questions:
A-Define 'religion' & its book.
B-Define 'a correct religion' and its book.
C-Define 'THE correct religion' and its book."

That eliminated any need to cite any of the religious books, including the Koran.

"Don't mix between Arabs and Muslims. " I didn't, but good try. Well aware of the differences as I have made clear in all of my posts. The difference between you and I, by the way, might be that I accept others, and have been accepted by others, from Arabs living today in Israel, entirely peacefully, to Iranian immigrants to the U.S. etc.

My whole point is that peace is what we need in the world for everyone, that there are good and bad people as part of every single culture and subculture across the globe, and that it is those who foment hatred that are part of the problem.

One more thing, Pat. When the allies started landing in Europe on Normandie beaches to liberate France from its German occupiers, the Germans can not pull out partially and say:We pulled out of Normandie and we got war. They pulled out of ALL FRANCE. Partial is not enough. What are they doing up in the Golan heights? Ashdod? Beir el Sabeh? Nazareth? Don't you think it's time for real peace? For them to sail back to their 'little silver' lands in the countries they came from? Don't they miss their respective home lands?!!!!!!!

My dear Pat:Again, again & again, had there been no Israel, the Palestinians and their surrounding countries would not be at war or be anti-Israel. What were the Israelis doing on Lebanese soil?!!!!!!! The PLO pulled out of Lebanon in 1982. Your Hagana terrorists waited 18 years to pull out in 2000!!!!!! Do you blame the Lebanese for resisting/attacking/killing Austrian/Polish/Hungarian/Lithuanian/Latvian/EstonianJewish terrorists in the Hagana occupying Lebanon?!!!!!!! Do you blame the Palestinians for acting in the same way?!!!!!!!!These Austrians should go back to their Austria and sing Blue Danube THERE(IN AUSTRIA.) Strapping children is not something I like or encourage. But when Israeli terrorists flying F-15's drop 'smart' bombs killing Lebanese and Palestinian babies, do not blame the Lebanese and Palestinians for killing Austrian babies in the Middle East. These Austrians babies, along with their parents, belong to Austria. The Lebanese and the Palestinians did not go to Rome, Italy and harrass its Jewish citizens. The Jews of Rome, Italy occupied parts of the Middle East since 1948. Correct me if I'm wrong:The RAF and USAF carpet bombed GErman cities(Dresden/Bremen) killing hundreds of thousands every night(including babies.)
Israel pulled out of Gaza-yes; but it did not pull out of Jerusalem, Haifa, Acre, Ashdod, Jenin(a town in the west bank that the Hagana surrounded with 250 tanks and killed unarmed, men, women, babies-even paralized patients on wheel chairs when it demolished homes on their heads. The record of the Hagana is quite impressive-negatively speaking of course.)
I'm not a Muslim, so I can't defend their acts. Hopefully, a Muslim person will respond to your comments. What they're doing is in the name of their religion. The terrorist criminals in the Hagana are NO BETTER; they are doing it in the name of their religion. SAME LOGIC. SMALL WORLD, ISN'T IT?!!

Fred, it's too bad that MSNBC always removes your brilliant fact-filled posts and only allows your pointless rants.

It's pure hilarity that you attempt to disdain war when that is the only option the Palestinians and other anti-Israelis have chosen. Israel abandoned Lebanon and the result is war. Israel abandaned Gaza and the result is war.

Don't talk to me about "animals" when it's your people who strap bombs to their children in an effort to blow up Israeli children.

Don't talk to me about "animals" when your beloved Islamists carve the heads off freedom loving people on video screeching, "Allah Akbar!!".

Don't talk to me about "animals" when Hezbollah sets up rocket launchers next to apartment complexes full of children, hoping for a retaliatory strike.

War is the tool of the free world for dislodging and destroying the evil-doers in the world. Yes, Germany temporarily remapped Europe. The free world responded by remapping Germany.

I wish MSNBC allowed my comment of yesterday to Pat. It had lots of facts, but apparently they didn't want these facts to be on the public.
Ignorance/lies is full in this world, not just to some members here on this website.
TO JOHN:
1) Your INITIAL message "These people hate you and I pray that you do what the rest of the world is afraid to do...wipe them off the planet." You did NOT limit wiping off to the terrorists only.
2) As to your careless attitude of not caring if you were called 'anti-Semite', well that's a dangerous thing. Semitic people are those who carried the message of God to the world, or at least the western one, through the Bible. The Nazis didn't care about their anti-Semitism; watch out, you have common traits with them. I agree with you that bad people are bad regardless of their tribal descendency(Jews, Christians, Muslims, Budhists, Hindus, Brahmins, Israelis, Palestinians, Australians). In that case, why do they make a big deal about anti-Semitism directed against Israel/Jews?!!!!!!!!!
3) As to your question "Why is it not anti-Semitic to hate Israel?" That's easy, Israelis are about 5% of the Semitic people. If I hate you, it does NOT mean I hate your ENTIRE family(I hope you remember your early school math. 5% is 95% less than 100%.)
TO PAT:I had a VERY long note for you yesterday, but our friends at MSNBC didn't allow it through.
1) The winner of war should not/does not determine the outcome. 'Might is right' is for animals, not for us-human beings. After the Nazis invaded and occupied France, killed thousands of innocent human beings, were they correct because they had the power and energy to kill/invade/occupy?!!!!!!!!!! Of course NOT. South America vs. Inca is a subject that interests you, not me. Pls., keep it for yourself.
2)You are questioning my interest '...in this little silver of land in the middle east...'. FIrst and foremost:If it's little silver of land, why are YOU interested in it?!!!!!!
If the country of your family, fathers and forefathers is little for you, it's NOT little for me. Apparently, you and myself have different interpretations to the words 'homeland', 'nationalism' and 'loyalty to homeland'. Thank God we have 2 DIFFERENT interpretations; yours and that of Benji Netanyahu and Jonathan Pollard is not that much nationalistic, if it's nationalistic in the first place!!!!!!!!
3) I never mentioned Mel GIbson, if he interests you, he doesn't interest me. Keep him for yourself.
4) Grace period of Palestinians did not AND WILL NOT RUN OUT. 58 years is a lot less than 2000 years for others. When we get to 2000, I assure you, we'll ask for our homecountry, Palestinian Christians, Muslims, Jews, aetheists, Summarians, Bahaians, Mandeans as we are asking for it now. Again, we call ourselves PALESTINIANS, we DO NOT use our religion(s) to define ourselves. We are not lazy whiners, we are fighting for our Palestine. Apparently, you(& Jonathan Pollard) are not role models for nationalist persons loyal to their home country, the USA. I hope you know/remember who Jonathan Pollard is and what he did.
TO ANONYMOUS:Your note was quite a lengthy one with several interesting & touchy points.
1) The books of the Hindus and Budhists don't contradict the Bible. Not contradicting something does NOT mean you support it or emphasize it.
I love it when you invoke the New Testament. I was waiting for it:Do our friends in Israel invoke it? Support it?!!!!!!!! Our Lord Jesus Christ The Messiah said:My kingdom is NOT of this earth. He did NOT believe in a kingdom in south west Asia called Palestine/Israel/Judeah/Sumaria/Disneyland, not in south east Asia called Burma, Vietna, Korea(north or south) nor Japan.
You mention that there are many Christians in Israel-Greek, Roman,Russian, ARmenian. Why should not the Palestinian CHRISTIANS go back there?!!!!!!!!!!
You should fight your enemy. If that means hating it, so be it. The French fought the nazi Germans and hated them. Nothing wrong with that. General DeGaulle had to leave France to England; eventually, he went back to his homeland. Why is it difficult for you to understand that if the Palestinians are spread across the Middle East that they should go back to thier homeland. If you don't have physical possession of something, that does NOT mean you lose title to it!!(Ask a lawyer.)
It's quite weird when you quote the Koran when, correct me if I'm wrong, you didn't read it, or any part there off. The Koran ADMITS that the Messiah was on this earth 2000 years ago, that He had no biological father and that He was from the spirit of God-JUST LIKE WE CHRISTIANS BELIEVE. If you think Muslims are violent and bad and blow others to pieces, why did the west and NATO defend them in Yugoslavia/Bosnia/Serbia?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Muhammad Ali is one. Your thoughts about him?
Canaanites are today's Palestinians and some live in southern Lebanon. Yes, they are still alive. The village, Qana, that the Hagana just killed 37 kids in is the SAME Qana that Jesus changed water to wine in. SAME VILLAGE.
Charlie Sheen note:The Jewish centers should have criticized the movie, not defend the Palestinians. He said, 'Arabs are ragheads.' He did not say 'Palestinians are ragheads.' Arabs are 95% of the Semitic people. 95% is a LOT MORE than 5%. The Jewish organizations in this country are nothing but funny and self-appointed judges in these matters. Can you imagine if he said 'Jews are rag heads'!!! If you are a judge, you either judge ALL, or don't be a judge(if these organizations are judges in the first place.)
FYI-Don't mix between Arabs and Muslims. Arabs can be Jews, Christians, Mandeans and Muslims. Mandeans, currently live in Iraq on the Euphrates and Tigris rivers, are the followers of John the Baptist. They baptise their children. We(CHRISTIANS) go it from them. Their religious sign is the Holy Cross with a White sheet on it. They can not go back to Palestine, you know EXACTLY why!!
Muslims can be ARabs AND NON-ARABS(Indonesia, Malyasia.)
Palestinian Christians HOLD CROSSES, INCENSE, FAST DURING LENT, CELEBRATE ASH WEDNESDAY, CELEBRATE PALM SUNDAY, CELEBRATE GOOD FRIDAY AND EASTER SUNDAY. THEY ARE AS MUCH OF CHRISTIANS AS ANYONE ELSE, IF NOT MORE. Their villages are currently being bombarded by the Hagana all over the west bank!!!!
We have not been able to celebrate our CHRISTIAN ceremonies because of ISRAEL.
I'm proud to write in a free society/country called the USA. I'm proud to be a Palestinian/American, just like the Irish/Americans are proud of their heritage.
Waiting for your response(s).
Cordially Yours!!

"TO ANONYMOUS re. quoting from the Bible and ARafat:If you want to open the door of quoting from the Bible, you can't close the door on others. You have to listen to the Hindus and the Ghita, the Budhists and thier book...etc."

My point was related to YOU having "opened the door." You ALWAYS open that door - you only slam it shut when someone else uses the bible as a source. (And I notice you didn't address the Arafat part - but then you NEVER address the other person's point - you create an argument they never made and argue against that instead.)

You claim that all the Semites descend from Shem, which is apparantly something you learned from the bible. But according to YOU, the bible doesn't actually count as a historical document because there is a religion attached to it. And while we're on that subject, the religious texts of the Hindus, Bhuddists, etc. don't contradict either the Hebrew bible nor the Christian New Testament - again - a false argument. The only religious text that seemingly contradicts both the Old & New Testaments is, naturally, the Koran - written years later by a man who hated Jews (but apparently not enough to leave THEIR prophets out his new book, e.g., stories of Moses he made up). And who ever said that to see the bible as a historical document, one must either define religion or "close the door" on other either historical or theological texts? It is only the Muslim people who reject everyone else's religions and belief's - that is in THEIR book, by the way.

And while you are of course correct about the meaning of anti-semite, it is still a meaningless point. You know well what they mean when they use it incorrectly; they mean anti-Jews. Do you also go around correcting people as to the original meaning of the word, "gay?" When someone hates gay people, and encourages other people to hate them too, does it really matter what words they use? You've been accused of anti-semitism and your argument that you are actually a Semite is a waste of everyone's time...you are what they meant - a person who hates Jews.

Did you really claim that there are living Canaanites? Still trying to predate the Jewish claim to HEBRON, are you? It won't work - the mosque will still be built on TOP of the ruins of the synogogue - no matter how many people posting on a board you insult.

You actually cited a bad Hollywood movie as an example of pro-Jewish media? Charlie Sheen used a racial slur and you're mad because JEWS didn't defend the Palestinians???? The Jews that you have been ranting are just like Nazis in 1940's Germany? That's pretty funny. I guess I'll worry about that after the Arabs and Muslims defend anyone one else AT ALL against inhumane killers; again, let's hear them stand up for the non-Muslims in Darfur, before we worry about yet another racial slur in a bad movie.

There were many, many Christians in Israel - Greek, Roman, Russian, Armenian, and that's just to name a few. I suspect the difference between them and the people you call Palestinians is that they weren't trying to kill people. They held crosses and incense - not hatred, bombs, and guns.

And when I talked about peace and tolerance, I meant YOU. YOU do not actually compare to the French Resistance - you are writing, in perfect freedom, in the United States of America. YOU are not in what one can only hope will be the future state of Palestine; I meant that YOU should stop fomenting hatred.

You must not know a whole lot about Nazis, by the way...you make that obvious everytime you cite them. But I guess that's what they taught you to use at "How to incite others to hate Jews" School. Irony 101, right?

Fred:

First, sorry about the Sam crack. I was in quite a mood last night. I didn't realize that you were reading it in Arabic. Your location said LA, CA not Palestine so I assumed you were reading it in English. Again--Sorry for the assumption.

Next, I'm not afraid to be called anti-semetic. You throw the word around like there is something special about all semetic people. There isn't. People are people. And bad people are bad regardless of their tribal descendency

When I say that Israel should wipe these terrorist groups off the face of the earth, I don't honestly care if someone thinks I am being anti-semetic. These people are terrorists. They are a plague upon the whole of the earth, a tumor that needs to be removed and hiding behind terminology like "anti-semetic" is just as lame as using innocent women and children as human shields or human bombs.

My comments have absolutely no tie to my feelings about the semetic people. They are purely about terrorists and I never said anything about killing all semetic people (by the way I noticed that you neglected to mention the people of Israel in your list of "semetic" people). I do however, feel very strongly that these people who choose to engage in terrorist activities need to be wiped off the face of the planet.

Why is it not anti-semetic to hate Israel? They are children of Noah too, they are descendents of Abraham. Why do they not have less right to be there?

Fred, what's with the long-winded jibberish? I never said anything about a "state" equaling "good". I said the good guys are free and the bad guys hate freedom. If you can only win a debate by changing what someone else says then you've already lost, my friend.

Regarding the Palestinian fight against "occupation", you Israel haters are so silly. Why don't the simple rules of war apply? The winner of the war determines the outcome; It's that simple. Practically every border on the planet was defined as the result of a war. Should South American go back to Spain and then back to the Incas? Good Lord, where will it end? None of us will know where to sleep tonight using your math.

Ah, but you're only interested in this little sliver of land in the middle east, aren't you?? Why is that? I imagine you and Mel Gibson would get along swimingly.

And seriously, hasn't the grace-period run out on the term "refugees" for the Palestinians after so many years. I mean, is the decendent of a refugee, still a refugee? I'd prefer to call him a lazy whiner.

1) TO ANONYMOUS who mentioned about Church of the Holy Sepulchre:If many Christians of many nationalities in Israel living in the old city of Jerusalem, why not let the CHRISTIANS of Palestine who were driven out of their homes since 1948 go back there?!!! You further mention 'fostered peace and tolerance with and for others...etc.' You can't expect tolerance from the French towards the Nazis when they occupied France in WWII. You shouldn't tolerate bad, should you?
2) TO JOHN IN Fort Worth, TX:As a Palestinian Christian, I read the Bible in ARabic. Sam=Shem. It's the 1 and same person on the 1 and same boat, ont a different one. As to what you said that 'wipe them off the planet.' Israel's neighbors are Lebanese, Palestinians, Jordanians, Phoenicians, Kanaanites, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Syriacs, Nabatians, Sumarians...etc. ALL THESE ARE SEMITIC PEOPLE. Wiping them off is anti-Semitism. Watch your mouth; we need to stop anti-Semitism, not increase it.
3) To anonymous re. "pro Jewish" media. I like to remind you that a few years ago, there was a famous movie playing in theaters across the nation called 'NAVY SEALS.' Actor Sheen says "Arabs are rag heads." NO ONE OF THE JEWISH CENTERS LIKE ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE, BNAI BRITH, JEWISH DEFENSE LEAGUE, ABC, CBS, CNN, NBC...ETC. criticized the movie as anti-Semitic. WHY NOT? THEY'RE EQUATING ANTI-JEWISH WITH ANTI-SEMITISM, AN ANTI-SEMITIC IN AND OF ITSELF.
4) TO ANONYMOUS re. quoting from the Bible and ARafat:If you want to open the door of quoting from the Bible, you can't close the door on others. You have to listen to the Hindus and the Ghita, the Budhists and thier book...etc.(the list of religions is endless.) You'll face the following questions:
A-Define 'religion' & its book.
B-Define 'a correct religion' and its book.
C-Define 'THE correct religion' and its book.
Are you sure that the billions of non Jews and non Christians will agree on your definition? Are you sure the Bible is better than other books? As a Christians, I must respectfully tell you not all of the Bible is holy or correct or meaningul(remember the speaking jackass of Belaam, the 'profits' who marry their own biological daughters!!!!!!!!!!
If the British did not smuggle Cheks, Slavs, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Ukranians, Russians into Palestine, no one would have heard of Arafat. He and his people are fighting to go back to their homeland that was stolen/occupied by non Palestinians since 1948.
5) TO PAT:Regarding strongly disagreeing. Your initial quote is that if you have a state, you are nice/correct. Wrong, the Nazis had their state, they were wrong. The BRitish had their state back in the 1770's, but they were wrong. They had no right to occupy this country. Your quote is that if you have no state, you are bad/wrong. Again, you are very wrong. Before 1776, there was no USA. But General Washington and his followers were correct freedome fighters fighting to liberate themselves from British occupation. The Palestinians are correctly fighting against occupation as well.
Good states:USA, Canada, Australia, France.
Bad states:North Korea, Nazi Germany, Israel, Iran...etc.
Good people(with or without state):French during WWII fighting to liberate themselves from Nazi Germans, Americans fighting against British occupation, Palestinians fighting to return to their homeland.
I also disagree with you anti-Jewish=anti-Semitic. IT IS NOT. The Jews are about 6% of the SEmitic people. Opposing 6% of 100%, obviously, is not opposing 100%.
Hope MSNBC will not delete this message.

Islam do not force anyone, anybody, any individual etc to convert to Muslim. This is wrong. Even Islam do not stop anyone to convert to other religion if he/she has valid reasons to do so. Please don't get it wrong. Even some Muslim misinterpret this.

Wow! there have been some intresting comments since I last posted. And aren't there some exciting things going on in the world.

First, I have a question. Noah had sons named Shem, Japheth, Ham. Who is Sam? Maybe Sam was on a different boat.

Next, I have a thought. All over the news today, I hear stories about outrage that Israel hit a building and killed women and children. It's sad when innocent people die, but isn't that what terrorist do too? And in the end, isnt' it the terrorists who put the innocent people at risk by shooting from their location? How can the world expect Israel to fight back if they can't shoot where the enemy is--Oh, what that's right, the world doesn't want Israel to shoot back, they want Israel to continue to it. I wonder what would happen if Israel began storing and shooting all of their bombs from location around the Dome of the Rock. Surely the Islamic terrorists wouldn't shoot back and try to knock out Israel's weapons. Ah, but if they did, then a huge holy war would break out because these irrational people would say Israel forced them to bomb their holy site by hiding weapons nearby.

Israel--You can't negotiate with irrational people. These people hate you and I pray that you do what the rest of the world is afraid to do...wipe them off the planet.

I understand that there are 10,000 Palestinian & Lebanese civilian mostly women & children in Israel prison secretly kept for so many years. Are they terrorists? What Hizbullah did was merely asking for a swap of 2 Israeli captured soldiers. What did they get in return. BOMBS raining in their country!!!
George Bush was wrong. Hizbullah did not start the so-call war. Israel did. They start the bombing.... Even Hizbullah's leader was caught by surprise with massive Israeli bombing into their country.

The delay by Bush and Blair in asking for a ceasefire reflects their racist mentality. If a few hundred innocent Lebanese Muslims and Christians have died, so what? Would they have tolerated this massacre if those on the receiving end were Europeans or Americans? Why shouldn't we have a multi-national force on the West Bank and Gaza to check Israeli excesses. Why not create a buffer zone of 25 miles around West Bank and Gaza inside Israeli territory?

"Had Israel not existed/we did not support it, most probably the price of a gallon would be less, by far. No need to remind you Israel has no Oil!!"

What does that actually mean? Israel has no oil therefore we spend a lot on it?

Oil is expensive because the people who provide it to everyone else charge a lot. Trying to convince people that Israel should be destroyed by implying that all they need to do to pay less for a shrinking commodity for which there is an overwhelming demand is easily the silliest argument ever. You have lost all sense completely, and really your arguments, stripped away of the lies you tell, and the cliched hyperbole you use, are empty.

What is left? A man, screaming: "Kill them. Kill them. Because I hate them." No wonder you have trouble with the bible, and "question it."

And for the record, I've been to Israel several times...there were many Christians, of many nationalities, living peacefully. Ever heard of the Church of The Holy Sepulchre? Ever see the many different denominations of Christians who live in Jerusalem, in the Old City? If those who were once Jordanian (I know you are a stickler for those details), etc., but now want to be Palestinian, fostered peace and tolerance with and for others, including Jews, Israel would finally be able to relax it's guard against them, and all of that "second-class citizen" stuff could be done away with too. If Israelis didn't have to worry about people like you, who say things like "Dirty Israel," (while at the same time, you want to be there so badly it makes you writhe inside), then even people like you, who haven't yet learned to stop hating, might even be able to go and learn to live in peace with ALL kinds of people.

The "pro-Jewish media?" What a crock. The media is anything but pro-Jewish, and anyone who thinks otherwise must be blind, deaf, and dumb. And the only people who promulgate such nonsense are the same sort who quibble over the definition of semitic as if that's somehow meaningful or mitigating. The problem is the lack of peace in the world - if you're not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. It's really that simple.

" Semitic people are those who descended from Sam, the son of Noah(remember Noah's arc in the Bible?) " Quoting from the bible again, Fred, when it momentarily suits your purpose? I'm sure if Pat tries to, you'll say it can't be done - he/she can check your record on the board.

"Incidentally, why did u forget about Jewish extremism in the list of bad guys?!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

You mean the way you included almost all Jews in your list, but somehow managed to leave out Arafat? LOL

Fred: You "disagree quite strongly" with me yet don't say with what. My post was pretty simple. I said the good guys are free and the bad guys hate freedom. I listed what I believe to be examples.

You go back over 200 years and make no point whatsoever.

What do you disagree with? Is North Korea good? Is Australia bad?

If you're drawn to be overly complicated, try responding based on which of these countries is easier to visit and then leave again.

Otherwise just tell us that you want Israel destroyed and end all the freaking drama.